• Homeworld 2 Mission 15

Hello, and welcome to Homeworld 2. What is Homeworld 2? Homeworld 2 is the last game in the Homeworld series (at least until we get Homeworld: Shipbreakers). You can view my LPs of Homeworld here, and Homeworld: Cataclysm here. Knowing the plot of the first helps with this game, but Cataclysm's story-line and factions are not needed for this game. Much of the success of Homeworld 2 will depend on the final storyline and the advanced missions, but the well-designed interface, the wide variety of ships and structures, and new multiplayer.

After reading the recent thread about I decided to finally stop procrastinating and play Homeworld 2 (a game that's been on my 'to do' list for over 3 years). Everything went great until I got to mission #3 and summarily got my ass handed to me, again.and again.and again. For those who haven't played it in awhile, this is the mission where you must protect the Sarum shipyard and ultimately, recapture it when it gets boarded by the enemy. After about 10 hours of complete frustration, I gave up and went to bed. Came back to it this morning and finished it on the first try (albeit, with only 15 seconds left on the auto-destruct clock, yikes!).

My question is this: Is the wicked difficulty level for this mission an aberration, or is every mission afterwards going to be this hard? I played the first Homeworld, and it was challenging, but I don't remember it being this hard until the last two missions, which I suppose is typical for most games. I noticed there's a patch for HW2, does this tweak the play balance? You're just a wuss.Nah, from what I remember, that's a pretty difficult level. One of the tricks is to know exactly where the enemy jumps in, and have your fighters/corvettes sitting waiting for them. Then once that group is taken care of, run back to the shipyard to defend. Another thing is to target those infiltration frigates to pick them off prior to them landing at the shipyard.

As you do that, you have to keep pressing towards the carriers.The more I think about it, the more I remember how annoying that level was. It takes a while to be able to both beat back the attempts at taking the shipyard, and mount an offense. It tends to get a bit easier for a while after that. Like the first HW, the first few levels, you've got limited resources and ships, so it tends to be frustrating. But as you build your fleet up, the pressure eases off a bit. Then again, one of the last missions has a similar issue of fending off waves of ships while attempting to get to something the enemy is trying to blow up. That was just as, if not more frustrating!I don't think the patch nerfs anything.

There is, however, a cheat that allows you to grant yourself any ship you want. After I beat the game, it was fun giving myself the mega-ship from the start and just toast enemy fleets from across the map. IIRC some ships add to the cap. I think carriers/shipyard with the fighter module add to the fighter cap, although I could totally be making that up (as I haven't played HW2 in some time).That said-that mission is always the hardest for me. I think the last time I tried it I set two mine corvettes to laying a field while I sent my entire fleet off to save the gate; once that was accomplished (expensively-be sure your builders are constantly producing reinforcements), I pulled the enemy cap ships into the minefield.

Between that and a bomber wing keeping the enemy missile launcher subsystems suppressed, it wasn't too bad. (The missile launchers on the enemy cap ships are the real killers; everything else can be absorbed fairly easily.). Originally posted by Psion:Then I went and captured fifty ion frigates late game before I got horribly bored and used them as my capital ship death squad. 'yeah attack these heavy cruisers and stuff, I'll check back in a few minutes'A HW1 80-strong agressive ion 'death ball' was truly an amazing sight to see. When set to attack a group of capitals, seeing how the ball just enveloped them, vaping ship after ship (before the ball even stopped moving!) with the continuous beams.it was probably the single coolest thing I've seen in an RTS. As I recall, the patch does reduce the difficulty somewhat - I think there were lots of complaints about difficulty level when the game came out. In theory, HW2 has an adaptive difficulty system, so it should keep things challenging, but not crushing.

In practice, it seems to have defaulted to a bit too hard for many. So try the patch, it may help you out.I've never tried this, but I've seen claims that if you're really not having luck, you can cheat the auto-balancing system by basically retiring your whole fleet at the end of a mission, before moving to the next one. Apparently the auto-balance looks at initial fleet strength as a key metric to determine the enemy strength. So trash fleet, move to next mission, build up fleet while being careful not to trigger any enemy activity, and see if it's a lot easier.Again, haven't tried it myself, so can't vouch for the technique. I finished H2 for a second time recently and this time it was much easier than last time.Forget your Homeworld 1 techniques, by using the minimal amount of units, the auto-adjustement makes the IA use a sane amount of ships.The only ships I keep close to their unit cap are destroyers and capital ships because compared to the others, you cannot build them quickly. Fighters, frigates and corvettes can be chain built.Also keep in the mind the rock-paper-scissor nature of the gameplay, define groups along those lines ie make a 'rock' group and when a 'paper' group of enemy ship are attacking you, you can call them with a keystroke. Seriously, I snagged almost every MBF in Kadesh, and that made a lot of the rest of the game pretty easy.I found the MBFs in Kadesh nowhere near as useful as the standard types.

Homeworld 2 Mission 15

While yes, they have 4 ion cannons, they also spin in a spiralling motion when firing them, so the beams don't actually dwell on the target very much.They've been working pretty well for me so far. I haven't finished HW1 yet, but at this point, I've captured every MBF that has come my way (I think I have 14 so far), along with all of the enemy carriers (except 1 that isn't capturable - it hyperspaces out) and heavy cruisers, and I think a few ion frigates. The MBF's do have some issues with dwell time, but their beams stay on significantly longer than ion frigates, IIRC. Once you've got a group of 14 or so shooting at something, it isn't going to last long.

Originally posted by ChrisG:I found the MBFs in Kadesh nowhere near as useful as the standard types. While yes, they have 4 ion cannons, they also spin in a spiralling motion when firing them, so the beams don't actually dwell on the target very much.That's WHY I like them. I've seen MBFs, at range, do some nasty damage to corvettes and fighter groups; targets you'd never expect to hit with a standard ion frigate.Also, en masse, yeah you don't really care that much. One or two MBFs is not that exciting, but a group of say 10 is 40 beams lancing out, and that's a lot of hurt even if they only stay 'on target' 85% of the time or so. While we're discussing the Homeworlds, I figure I'll ask a question that has been bugging me for a while.Has anyone figured out the nuances of heavy corvette (HW1) secondary fire? I am very fond of wailing down on smaller ships with my 16 HC and 2 repair frigate groups, and while they can tear through any smaller (or big) ships like molten depleated uranium through butter, I am still hit-or-miss with their explosive rounds, and I was wondering if someone has figured out the explosive-round 'rules'.Say I have my wing facing an enemy fighter squadron and a corvette squadron a bit behind the fighters, all of which are coming straight in at my heavies. I target the entire fighter group for an explosive barrage.

Sometimes, every heavy opens up at once, and the entire enemy wing is instantaneously vaporized. Sometimes, they just sit there. Sometimes, they wait a bit, fire, and totally miss.

Then we have the enemy corvette wing, which I target after the fighters are gone. Sometimes, the heavies blow up the corvettes right away, and sometimes, they just sit there, maybe firing with standard rounds. There seems to be no rhyme or reason to any of this, which very well might be a good thing, because if heavy corvettes reliably fired explosive rounds, there isn't an enemy fighter in the game that would ever get a single shot off.After trying to figure out the trick to explosive rounds for a while, I could only come up with two factors which might (or might not) matter.distance to target upon giving command, and time between giving explosive-fire commands. It seems that if I ask them to fire a second explosive salvo too soon, they will ignore the command, but if I hit the very end of some unknown time interval, they will fire the second salvo without needing to 'charge' for it. I'm assuming this means the explosive rounds are still loaded in the guns.

Charging, however, is an entirely different factor which I still do not have an intuitive understanding of. Sometimes, they take a while to charge, and fire upon a location far behind the target. Sometimes, they fire right away, which results in the successful destruction of the incoming squad.Cound anyone with a profound understanding of heavy corvette tactics set me straight? Originally posted by malor:I found this game supremely annoying, because each level was explicitly designed to kill the ships you brought in. So there was no point in building up, and in fact there seemed like very little reason to play the game at all, since any accomplishment would be wiped out shortly thereafter.HW1 and the add-on, Cataclysm, were awesome. HW2 just sucked.I'm sorry, but what you said indicates that it's not Homeworld 2 that sucked, but you who sucked.Yes, the auto-balance feature lets the computer pick a fleet designed to counter your fleet, and yes, with rock-paper-scissors rules of engagement, a huge fleet could get it's ass kicked, but only if it was a very limited fleet.

The key is to diversify. If you went in with a huge rock fleet and prompty got wailed on by the computer's paper, don't start crying about it and saying the game is crap. Instead, try building a fleet with a little bit of all three elements, and watch in amazement as it's suddenly you who is hammering the snot out of the computer. Originally posted by sowellfan:They've been working pretty well for me so far. I haven't finished HW1 yet, but at this point, I've captured every MBF that has come my way (I think I have 14 so far), along with all of the enemy carriers (except 1 that isn't capturable - it hyperspaces out) and heavy cruisers, and I think a few ion frigates.If you're one of those 'I gotta capture EVERYTHING on this level' types of people, there is a mission later in the game which is going to take you days. Good luckjkscorch: No, I tended to use multi-gun corvettes as 'screw you, bombers' point defense so I never used heavy corvettes much. I'd like to know though, maybe I've been missing something.

No, I tended to use multi-gun corvettes as 'screw you, bombers' point defense so I never used heavy corvettes much. I'd like to know though, maybe I've been missing something.I made a few heavy/multi mixed corvette wings (10&10), as well as seperate wings of each type (10 a piece) to test them out. I tried them in both defence and assault situations. I found that the multiguns were more effective than heavies when in the middle of an opposing scout/fighter squad, due to the better agility of the multi's guns.

However, heavies beat them out in every other situation. Hell, the heavies never even got into a cloud of fighters.if the explosives didn't vape the entire incoming, I'd reload and try again (those explosives are damn finicky).

In the mixed wing, when using just primary weapons, the situation post-engagment was always the same.heavies were damaged, multies were gone.I can see the multi possibly being more effective for a player who will simply click-and-forget during combat (though even then I'd take the tougher heavies), but if you micromanage, there is absolutely no comparison between the two corvette classes.Psion, when you play HW1 again (we both know there is no if, only when), give the heavies a try. Many people didn't even know that they had a secondary firing mode. IIRC, took me through the fourth or fifth mission to figure it out myself. Yes, the auto-balance feature lets the computer pick a fleet designed to counter your fleet, and yes, with rock-paper-scissors rules of engagement, a huge fleet could get it's ass kicked, but only if it was a very limited fleet. The key is to diversify. If you went in with a huge rock fleet and prompty got wailed on by the computer's paper, don't start crying about it and saying the game is crap.

Instead, try building a fleet with a little bit of all three elements, and watch in amazement as it's suddenly you who is hammering the snot out of the computer.That's garbage game design. It forces you to choose only one tactic. Choose anything else, and you're dead. Not because your force choice is actually BAD, but because the computer gets to make up a force explicitly designed to beat yours. So you have only one workable option. That's bad game design.Rock-paper-scissors, especially when the computers knows what you chose ahead of time, is a hideously bad game mechanic.

It's okay for kids in schoolyards. I expect a little more depth out of a computer game.Real commanders have what they have, and need to make it work. In no case in real life is the rock-paper-scissors effect absolute. In most of the RPS games, the effect is so strong that it's literally insurmountable. If you are facing rock, you MUST use paper. That's not fun. That's just tedium.Homeworld 2 sucks because there is only one strategy that works.

In other words, it's not a strategy game. It's a puzzle game. You get your ass kicked until you figure out the one workable approach. I don't get the HW2 hate.1) Having an imbalanced fleet is not the same as building everything.

Again, I went through the entire single-player and skipped flak frigates, and did just fine. In fact, Flak frigates are so people who like to play with 'rock' fleets can fight people who like to play with 'paper' fleets rather than mixing in some 'scissor' ships. I actually enjoyed having a mix, but more often than not I fought off paper with paper, scissor with scissor, and rock with rock.2) It was not a puzzle game. It was basically a game of taking advantage of what you have, which is why it gets easier as you played through it. The limited access in the beginning to technology really hampers what you can do. It also doesn't help that people who played HW1 were in the mind to capture anything and everything, but HW2 was not made with the idea to make you sit around and capture resources (even at 8x timespeed) or capture enemy ships. In fact, you couldn't capture if you didn't have enough space in your fleet limit for them.

I didn't particularly like that aspect, as it made the marine frigate only a setpiece for advancing the game rather than a useful tool of combat. I did like not having to drag the ship back to your mothership or carrier, though.Toward the end of the game I constantly had a maxed fleet, and I had no problems getting through it, except the mission where they're destroying the gate and you have to stop them.I disliked HW:C quite a bit.

It was still a decent game, but I think HW2 was better in every way (except perhaps for the lack of a long-range artillery gun).Seriously, to me, it looks like the people complaining about HW2 disliked it because it was too difficult to win in exactly the way they wanted to win. Just because you like using only capital ships doesn't mean that's a viable strategy. You have to adapt.

It's easier to adapt if you have a balanced fleet, but you can do it without that, you just have to be prepared to adapt. Like it or not, playing with a losing strategy will result in losing. You can still win without using a FAQ or having your fleet exactly balanced.

Hell, the final mission is so much easier if you stick to pretty much just interceptors for most of your fleet (you do need some capital ships I think, but if you use the dreadnaught right, you'll be fine).I need to get this up on my machine again and play through. HW2 was fun.Unfortunately, I do feel it was more limited in multiplayer. It was pretty much a game of whoever gets to battlecruisers first wins, so long as you don't get jumped before then.

Research everything you haven't then marshall the fleet (select them all and press tab to put them in military parade) you may have a problem here in that your fleet is too big.Too big in the frigate department (as in ion cannon frigates assault frigates fuel pods and support frigates, destroyers carriers, cruisers, strike craft, multibeam frigates ionarray cannons and non combat class do not matter).If your fleet is too big ie 300 capital ships + you can't hyperspace well you can but the game gets stuck as karan tries to marshall the fleet forever. There will be a bunch of capital ships that are at the extreme left of your fleet which are the number that exceed the upperlimit if fleet size (which is map size) select what you want in a fleet (leaving at least 20 support frigates) up to the upper limit and scuttle any ships that won't line up in military parade (you could retire them but this takes time and you can't spend the Rus anyway as the fleet is toobig already)I never took the time to capture over 100 ions frigates myself, but I've heard of the bug from enough sources for me to believe it. Originally posted by ChrisG:I'd say you're right, though. A general-purpose fleet, on average, will get its ass kicked many times until you can build the right combo of unit(s) for that particular mission.I never had that problem.

I had missions where it took me a few tries to get my tactics right, but I never had to build a 'right combo of ships' for any particular mission.For instance, in the mission where you have to save the shipyard, the first two times I tried to keep most of my fleet on the shipyard, with the result that I was inevitably trying to beat off successive waves while recapturing the shipyard with my marine frigs.Once I figured out that I could send my fighters on a wide left hook and take the enemy carriers in the flank, that mission got a lot easier. It wasn't a matter of building more flaks vs. Fighters, or more marines vs.

Bombers, it was a matter of using my existing ships effectively. Launching a fighter squadron into the teeth of an assault isn't effective-it was in HW1, but it probably shouldn't have been.

POTENTIAL SPOILAGE.Some that rings true, but then there are several missions like building the Movers (under orders), building the otherwise useless shield frigates to retrieve the Bentusi cores, and the final mission, where unless you split the fleet 3 ways immediately, or have about 6 wings of fighters / bombers ready to deal with the planet-busters, you're fucked and have to start again.There is indeed a healthy dose of finding exactly what it is you need to succeed through trial and error in HW2. The last mission I'll give you; you really do have to get three wings of Interceptors to the right place to kill the planet busters pretty fast; very few other ships are effective (and/or fast) enough to get all of them.The others I guess technically require you to have specific ships, but I don't think that counts as having to build the right combo of ships for a specific mission in the sense you seemed to mean. The game tells you you need them, and there were certainly missions in HW1 and HW:C where you needed a specific unit. Originally posted by jkscorch:when you play HW1 again (we both know there is no if, only when), give the heavies a try.Oh yeah, you're right about this - there is only when. Might be pretty soon now that we're talking about it, but I just found my Kilrathi Saga discs and I'm playing those. I'm also tempted to go drop a couple hundred bucks on a pair of pedals and HOTAS setup.

So I might have to wait for me to finish off all the WC games and a couple rounds of Freespace 2 just for kicks, then get HomeworldThe deal is, no, I tended to click and forget my multi-guns. I'd put them in the proper formation and orientation and leave them alone; I was too busy trying to micro my offensive strike craft. I'll give the heavies a shot and micro them though, seems interesting. It's been a while but I found that a decent stack of flack frigates (around 6-7)+ a few fighters and bombers allowed me to destroy wave after wave of attackers. I never lost the Shipyard.

Though suffered from heavy attrition. A decent group of flack frigates defended by platforms and fighters were key.Oh, and you're a wuss.I never played HW1, but HW2 is one of my favorite games of all time. I just wish it was Universal Binary. Tactically, I think my problem was always that I wanted to dominate and humiliate the computer. Which is why it took me so long to complete the levels. The penultimate level is my favorite. I'd consistently get an incredibly massive space battle going by the end of it.

Before the patch HW2 was retire all the ships before the next lvl and rebuild from scratch for me.I just redid the campaign after the patch and it was a great deal more fun. Epic space battles that were quite a bit of fun.My guidelines was:4x intercepter10x bomber8xGun Corvetts4xpulsar14xions7xmissile friggats0xflak (I found them useless)5 destroyers2 heavy cruisers4 carriers1 dreadnaughtI basically created 2 differant fleets bound to 1 key, both combined arms. One 1/3 of my ships and one 2/3rds. The bombers were kept seperate and bound to a differant key. I attacked with the 1/3 with the 2/3rds right behind it. And then just ladder stepped them through each other as each finished its engagement.I would split my 20x resource collecters in half, with each set to repair all of their respecive fleet.

Resource collector casualties was very high.Before the battle started I would position the bombers behind, and after it started it was take out the missile launchers on the heavy cruisers, picking a differant 1 every 10 seconds. Then just let them go and do there thing after the launchers were gone.With the carriers turning out fighters, corvettes, frigates, and resource collecters the heavy causualties among those small classes wasn't to bad.The bombers were also good for the last mission missiles.I used platforms to guard the mothership & carries.Fighters docking in there battlecruiser completily renews them.

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